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	<title>Comments on: PHP vs Python &#8212; Where Opinions Aren&#8217;t Wanted</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html</link>
	<description>A blog about Django, JavaScript, CSS, and general web development.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:46:01 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: dink</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-2#comment-22048</link>
		<dc:creator>dink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-22048</guid>
		<description>you fucking excel at stroking your own ego.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you fucking excel at stroking your own ego.</p>
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		<title>By: from reddit</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-2#comment-22041</link>
		<dc:creator>from reddit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 21:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-22041</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s something from reddit on the same subject:

&quot;These kind of debates remind me of a story I once heard about Formula 1 champion Graham Hill. He was hired by a British auto magazine as a reviewer, but it didn&#039;t work out because no matter what kind of car they gave him to drive, he was always able to get it to do what he wanted, hence he was never able to be sufficiently critical for the job of a reviewer.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s something from reddit on the same subject:</p>
<p>&#8220;These kind of debates remind me of a story I once heard about Formula 1 champion Graham Hill. He was hired by a British auto magazine as a reviewer, but it didn&#8217;t work out because no matter what kind of car they gave him to drive, he was always able to get it to do what he wanted, hence he was never able to be sufficiently critical for the job of a reviewer.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: whining kids</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-2#comment-22040</link>
		<dc:creator>whining kids</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 21:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-22040</guid>
		<description>You sound like a bunch of whining kids. If don&#039;t have the balls to make your choice without talking something down -- refer to first sentence. 

If I give you a 90-pound-7-feet European medieval sword, that won&#039;t make you a Crusader. You&#039;ll be a kid whining how heavy the sword is.

If I give you a katana, that won&#039;t make you a samurai. You&#039;ll be a kid whining how short the sword is.

Either way, if you ever meet samurai or Crusader, whatever sword you have in your hands, you don&#039;t stand a chance.

Programming language is a tool. It&#039;s your job to learn how to use it. Whenever I hear &quot;______ sucks!&quot;, I know I&#039;m dealing with an amateur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You sound like a bunch of whining kids. If don&#8217;t have the balls to make your choice without talking something down &#8212; refer to first sentence. </p>
<p>If I give you a 90-pound-7-feet European medieval sword, that won&#8217;t make you a Crusader. You&#8217;ll be a kid whining how heavy the sword is.</p>
<p>If I give you a katana, that won&#8217;t make you a samurai. You&#8217;ll be a kid whining how short the sword is.</p>
<p>Either way, if you ever meet samurai or Crusader, whatever sword you have in your hands, you don&#8217;t stand a chance.</p>
<p>Programming language is a tool. It&#8217;s your job to learn how to use it. Whenever I hear &#8220;______ sucks!&#8221;, I know I&#8217;m dealing with an amateur.</p>
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		<title>By: TruthHunter</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-1#comment-22039</link>
		<dc:creator>TruthHunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-22039</guid>
		<description>I came here because I was want to upgrade my skills to handle a modern Web language. I wanted specific info to help me decide whether to go with PHP,Ruby, or Python. It is difficult to find helpful comparisons. I will probably go with PHPif I can find a suitable Development Framework(Qcodo? thanks for the tip). 

My reasons have to do with accessibility and ease of entry. A C based syntax is a big plus based on previous exposure to C and Java. For me learning a new syntax and incompatibility of whitespace with HTML will probably keep me away from Python. After scanning through a text on Python I like it, but think its just too alien to what I already know. Most of my computer career has involved things other than programming. 

ROR looks interesting and efficient, but syntax(it show is Japanese roots!),speed, limited usage will probably keep me away.  from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came here because I was want to upgrade my skills to handle a modern Web language. I wanted specific info to help me decide whether to go with PHP,Ruby, or Python. It is difficult to find helpful comparisons. I will probably go with PHPif I can find a suitable Development Framework(Qcodo? thanks for the tip). </p>
<p>My reasons have to do with accessibility and ease of entry. A C based syntax is a big plus based on previous exposure to C and Java. For me learning a new syntax and incompatibility of whitespace with HTML will probably keep me away from Python. After scanning through a text on Python I like it, but think its just too alien to what I already know. Most of my computer career has involved things other than programming. </p>
<p>ROR looks interesting and efficient, but syntax(it show is Japanese roots!),speed, limited usage will probably keep me away.  from it.</p>
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		<title>By: Meiki67</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-1#comment-22029</link>
		<dc:creator>Meiki67</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-22029</guid>
		<description>Dear colleagues !
First of all I have to express my shock about the sometimes primitive language on this thread. I&#039;m happy to meet here many knowleadgeable people, but I&#039;m not used to see &quot;suck&quot; an &quot;fuck&quot; and &quot;shit&quot; in discussions about useability of programming languages. Maybe that someone is disappointed about one or the other feature of a certain product, but this should not be a reason to use XXX related lanuage.
Now to the matter :
I&#039;m also an &quot;aged&quot; programmer, lot of Assembler, Cobol, PL/I, Fortran, Pascal, VB, asp, Forth, Postscript, MUMPS etc. My preferred language is - awk ! I bought in the nineties the Thompson Automation 32-bit awk compiler (tawk - long time discontinued) and realized with it big, heavy duty data processing tasks in many fields. Why I&#039;m on this thread ? I have here a lot of aged DSM (Digital Standard MUMPS) applications which run on a VSM VAX cluster. I have to transfer it to a &quot;modern&quot; environment (aka Windows Server with MS-SQL). I came to the conclusion that I have no resources to rewrite it from scratch (as I have no will to pay the $$$ license fees for Intersystems), but have a good chance to write a DSM interpreter/compiler which simulates ^Global access (MUMPS lingo for data base tables) in an SQL environment.
I&#039;ve loved to do it in tawk, but since this product is discontinued I have no approach to modern technologies, IP, ODBC etc. I tried gawk but don&#039;t see here a stable product which I can use out of the box for real world applications. My next thought was PHP - which in some domains resembles awk. Therefore I landed here.
I Would like to hear your recommendations (please without lower body part language)
Requirements summary:
1. I need a compiler
2. I need modules
3. OO - nice to have but not a must
4. I need powerful, fast UTF-8 string handling
5. I need access to all sorts of file system (URI)
6. I need access to database systems
7. I need both raw level IP socket support and hight level xxTP (SMTP, HTTP, ...) support
8. Multithreading would be an advantage
9. A clever IDE would be nice - but not a must
10. It may cost money - but not a must (-;)
Yours,
Meiki</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear colleagues !<br />
First of all I have to express my shock about the sometimes primitive language on this thread. I&#8217;m happy to meet here many knowleadgeable people, but I&#8217;m not used to see &#8220;suck&#8221; an &#8220;fuck&#8221; and &#8220;shit&#8221; in discussions about useability of programming languages. Maybe that someone is disappointed about one or the other feature of a certain product, but this should not be a reason to use XXX related lanuage.<br />
Now to the matter :<br />
I&#8217;m also an &#8220;aged&#8221; programmer, lot of Assembler, Cobol, PL/I, Fortran, Pascal, VB, asp, Forth, Postscript, MUMPS etc. My preferred language is &#8211; awk ! I bought in the nineties the Thompson Automation 32-bit awk compiler (tawk &#8211; long time discontinued) and realized with it big, heavy duty data processing tasks in many fields. Why I&#8217;m on this thread ? I have here a lot of aged DSM (Digital Standard MUMPS) applications which run on a VSM VAX cluster. I have to transfer it to a &#8220;modern&#8221; environment (aka Windows Server with MS-SQL). I came to the conclusion that I have no resources to rewrite it from scratch (as I have no will to pay the $$$ license fees for Intersystems), but have a good chance to write a DSM interpreter/compiler which simulates ^Global access (MUMPS lingo for data base tables) in an SQL environment.<br />
I&#8217;ve loved to do it in tawk, but since this product is discontinued I have no approach to modern technologies, IP, ODBC etc. I tried gawk but don&#8217;t see here a stable product which I can use out of the box for real world applications. My next thought was PHP &#8211; which in some domains resembles awk. Therefore I landed here.<br />
I Would like to hear your recommendations (please without lower body part language)<br />
Requirements summary:<br />
1. I need a compiler<br />
2. I need modules<br />
3. OO &#8211; nice to have but not a must<br />
4. I need powerful, fast UTF-8 string handling<br />
5. I need access to all sorts of file system (URI)<br />
6. I need access to database systems<br />
7. I need both raw level IP socket support and hight level xxTP (SMTP, HTTP, &#8230;) support<br />
8. Multithreading would be an advantage<br />
9. A clever IDE would be nice &#8211; but not a must<br />
10. It may cost money &#8211; but not a must (-;)<br />
Yours,<br />
Meiki</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-1#comment-22006</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 17:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-22006</guid>
		<description>Apples to oranges comparison. I am very good in PHP, I like it and I will continue using it. I started to learn Python recently and I really like it. But it&#039;s a different language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apples to oranges comparison. I am very good in PHP, I like it and I will continue using it. I started to learn Python recently and I really like it. But it&#8217;s a different language.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-1#comment-21342</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 04:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-21342</guid>
		<description>I first learned ruby and I was truly amazed on how you can code websites in a fast manner. The problem now is how you deploy your sites which makes php a winner in deployment. I still love ruby on Rails but I haven&#039;t used it for long because more companies opt to choose php(in my country)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first learned ruby and I was truly amazed on how you can code websites in a fast manner. The problem now is how you deploy your sites which makes php a winner in deployment. I still love ruby on Rails but I haven&#8217;t used it for long because more companies opt to choose php(in my country)</p>
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		<title>By: sashi</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-1#comment-21036</link>
		<dc:creator>sashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-21036</guid>
		<description>PHP is a simple and great web development language, much useful for beginners. I dont like to know the disadvantages of the language or its use. PHP gives just what you need to develop your own code in a simple manner, and so does the python. Whats the fact in discussing their drawbacks, when we love to code in our own language?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PHP is a simple and great web development language, much useful for beginners. I dont like to know the disadvantages of the language or its use. PHP gives just what you need to develop your own code in a simple manner, and so does the python. Whats the fact in discussing their drawbacks, when we love to code in our own language?</p>
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		<title>By: Stomme poes</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-1#comment-21030</link>
		<dc:creator>Stomme poes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-21030</guid>
		<description>&quot;There haven’t been any *real* updates to the language in quite a while (correct me if I’m wrong)&quot;
It&#039;s being updated constantly.  It had a period of slowness but it&#039;s a pretty vibrant, evolving language, esp with its experimental sister language Perl 6 (not a replacement for Perl5, who is still being updated regularly).

Moose, Catalyst, the Padre IDE... Perl is still alive and well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There haven’t been any *real* updates to the language in quite a while (correct me if I’m wrong)&#8221;<br />
It&#8217;s being updated constantly.  It had a period of slowness but it&#8217;s a pretty vibrant, evolving language, esp with its experimental sister language Perl 6 (not a replacement for Perl5, who is still being updated regularly).</p>
<p>Moose, Catalyst, the Padre IDE&#8230; Perl is still alive and well.</p>
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		<title>By: methos495</title>
		<link>http://www.davidcramer.net/code/121/php-vs-python.html/comment-page-1#comment-21028</link>
		<dc:creator>methos495</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidcramer.net/?p=121#comment-21028</guid>
		<description>Ok, 
I have to interject here on this whole argument...
Just to give some background, I am a former C/Perl/Java developer who now works entirely in PHP.

To say that PHP is a horrible language is a complete misnomer. 

- I loved working with C, and still do, it&#039;s powerful and does exactly what you want. The bookkeeping is an absolute nightmare. Having to allocate and deallocate memory and keep track of where you have created dynamic memory blocks, though forces you to be dilligent and careful, wastes a lot of time in development and testing.
- Enter Perl...This is a good language. All the modules are optimized C libraries, and using the strict module, you can easily keep a good structure to your programs. It has the same syntax as C with a few added extras, and allows you to perform virtually any function. The regular expression handling is second to none, which makes its extremely useful for its primary task (reading and parsing text). It has grown over the years, and in my opinion used in places it should not have been (such as the web). But for a long time it was the only game in town. Unlike C this is an interpreted language, which meant that production times are reduced significantly and modifications are easily implemented and quickly. It also means that a chance for lazy programming is introduced.
- Now comes Java. This is a beautiful language full of structure and a strict object oriented approach. Kept simple, Java might have been the true dominant player that it was set up to be, but the community mucked it up. Like Perl it was introduced to the web, a space that it really did not belong. The whole purpose of Java was to write a desktop application once and deploy it anywhere. Once the community got involved with EJB, J2EE, and the like, the language starting becoming bloated and unwieldy. Java zealots started making developer see nothing but Objects, and XML for all tasks, where these were not needed for most. This is a shame, because Java, with its internal bookkeeping, perl-like garbage collection, and disciplined structure, despite being semi-compiled could have been the language of choice for everything.
- The Web forced us to start thinking about languages meant for...well the web. Here comes PHP. The new kid in town, still retaining the C-like structure. This and used correctly is quite possibly the most powerful of all languages. With the advent of the mod_php and the cli engine, PHP has what it takes be a very clean-written, useful language. And used properly can allow a developer to put together a large-scale application (web or desktop) in a very short amount of time with very little code. Again being an interpreted language like perl, with the added benefit of Polymorphism, Extensibility, and inheritance (the definition of Object Oriented), like Java, PHP becomes a language that allows you to easily shoot yourself in the foot, as well as create powerful applications for web and desktop. The low bar for entry makes this a very user-friendly yet powerful enough for a seasoned veteran. This is the reason why it has become my language of Choice.
- As for Python. I have worked with it. It is...interesting to say the least. I have to admit I am not a fan of the forced whitespace. In my opinion, it is a step backwards reminding me of the days of Fortran in the early nineties. It is a useful language and can look very pretty. It is functional, has some very friendly nuances, but doesn&#039;t roll off the fingers like C, Java, Perl, or PHP. The syntax is the holding point. This is definitely an administrator&#039;s language allowing for quick programs to handle large amounts of data in a logical fashion. Very useful, and powerful, but not one that a professional developer would hang on to for long.

In all I have to agree to agree with Nocivus. Each language has its strengths and weaknesses and using the appropriate tool for the appropriate job is truly what defines a good developer, or software engineer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok,<br />
I have to interject here on this whole argument&#8230;<br />
Just to give some background, I am a former C/Perl/Java developer who now works entirely in PHP.</p>
<p>To say that PHP is a horrible language is a complete misnomer. </p>
<p>- I loved working with C, and still do, it&#8217;s powerful and does exactly what you want. The bookkeeping is an absolute nightmare. Having to allocate and deallocate memory and keep track of where you have created dynamic memory blocks, though forces you to be dilligent and careful, wastes a lot of time in development and testing.<br />
- Enter Perl&#8230;This is a good language. All the modules are optimized C libraries, and using the strict module, you can easily keep a good structure to your programs. It has the same syntax as C with a few added extras, and allows you to perform virtually any function. The regular expression handling is second to none, which makes its extremely useful for its primary task (reading and parsing text). It has grown over the years, and in my opinion used in places it should not have been (such as the web). But for a long time it was the only game in town. Unlike C this is an interpreted language, which meant that production times are reduced significantly and modifications are easily implemented and quickly. It also means that a chance for lazy programming is introduced.<br />
- Now comes Java. This is a beautiful language full of structure and a strict object oriented approach. Kept simple, Java might have been the true dominant player that it was set up to be, but the community mucked it up. Like Perl it was introduced to the web, a space that it really did not belong. The whole purpose of Java was to write a desktop application once and deploy it anywhere. Once the community got involved with EJB, J2EE, and the like, the language starting becoming bloated and unwieldy. Java zealots started making developer see nothing but Objects, and XML for all tasks, where these were not needed for most. This is a shame, because Java, with its internal bookkeeping, perl-like garbage collection, and disciplined structure, despite being semi-compiled could have been the language of choice for everything.<br />
- The Web forced us to start thinking about languages meant for&#8230;well the web. Here comes PHP. The new kid in town, still retaining the C-like structure. This and used correctly is quite possibly the most powerful of all languages. With the advent of the mod_php and the cli engine, PHP has what it takes be a very clean-written, useful language. And used properly can allow a developer to put together a large-scale application (web or desktop) in a very short amount of time with very little code. Again being an interpreted language like perl, with the added benefit of Polymorphism, Extensibility, and inheritance (the definition of Object Oriented), like Java, PHP becomes a language that allows you to easily shoot yourself in the foot, as well as create powerful applications for web and desktop. The low bar for entry makes this a very user-friendly yet powerful enough for a seasoned veteran. This is the reason why it has become my language of Choice.<br />
- As for Python. I have worked with it. It is&#8230;interesting to say the least. I have to admit I am not a fan of the forced whitespace. In my opinion, it is a step backwards reminding me of the days of Fortran in the early nineties. It is a useful language and can look very pretty. It is functional, has some very friendly nuances, but doesn&#8217;t roll off the fingers like C, Java, Perl, or PHP. The syntax is the holding point. This is definitely an administrator&#8217;s language allowing for quick programs to handle large amounts of data in a logical fashion. Very useful, and powerful, but not one that a professional developer would hang on to for long.</p>
<p>In all I have to agree to agree with Nocivus. Each language has its strengths and weaknesses and using the appropriate tool for the appropriate job is truly what defines a good developer, or software engineer.</p>
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